An interview with Darina Allen and my Hot Cross Bun recipe
Darina Allen on her favourite way to eat, the best advice she's received and her favourite kitchen tool (spoiler: it's a tiny whisk)
I did the Ballymaloe Cookery School 12-week course in 2019, and not to be dramatic, but it completely changed my life. I had been saving up for the course since I was about 8 years old (starting the Ballymaloe Fund with my Holy Communion income and the profit from a business baking lemon drizzle cakes for my grandmother and her sisters). I completed my undergraduate degree at Trinity College Dublin (in a totally non-food related field), but had wanted to be a chef for as long as I can remember. I drove down to East Cork in September 2019, apprehensive and excited, with my first set of chef’s whites and my new knife kit in the boot.
Having looked forward to the course for so many years, I had such high expectations that I could have easily been disappointed. Instead, it exceeded my expectations. I left in December with a whole new appreciation for cooking “the Ballymaloe way”, after three months of gardening, foraging, butchery, cheesemaking, baking, and keeping the local pubs in business.
Darina Allen is the co-founder of Ballymaloe Cookery School, with her brother Rory O’Connell. It is truly a magical place, which has been formative in countless chefs’ and bakers’ careers. It is located on a 100-acre organic farm in Shanagarry, East Cork, a few minutes from the Celtic Sea.
I loved Ballymaloe so much that I returned a few years later to work in the pastry kitchen at Ballymaloe House. I popped in to visit Darina this morning, and we chatted about her journey in the food industry.
When did your interest in food start?
I was brought up in a country village in the Midlands. My mother loved to cook and we had a kitchen garden and chickens, and the food was really delicious. I went to boarding school in the Dominican Convent Wicklow. The Dominican nuns were considered to be very visionary, and they were encouraging us girls to have proper careers in law, the sciences, architecture or medicine - but all I wanted to do was to cook or to grow. But the main emphasis was on academic skills and the STEM subjects and I, as you probably know, feel very strongly about the importance of teaching people practical life skills to feed themselves properly. Anyway, all my friends were doing all these exciting careers, and I really still wanted to cook. So I opted for the degree in hotel management and went to Cathal Brugha Street in Dublin. But at the end of that course, I couldn't get into any of the top restaurants in Dublin because they wouldn't take a woman into the kitchen.
And I met one of the senior lecturers one day - and you never know what's the tiny thing that's going to change the course of the rest of your life. And so she said to me, “have you not got a job yet?”. And I said that I wanted to learn more about fresh herbs and I wanted to make homemade ice cream and you know, soufflés and patés and these things that sounded very exotic in the 60s. She said, “it’s funny, I was out with friends for dinner the other night and they were talking about this woman down in Cork, this extraordinary woman who seems to have opened a restaurant in her own house right out in the country. And she writes the menu every day depending on what's in the gardens and what’s in season, and sometimes the fish isn't on the menu until half six in the evening, depending on what comes in from the boats. And they have own Jersey herd so they make their own homemade ice cream and they have their own pigs and veggie garden”. I mean, I just couldn't believe my ears. It was like, tick, tick, tick, tick tick. Anyway, she couldn't remember the name of the woman. But she came back a few days later with a piece of paper and on the piece of paper was a name [Myrtle Allen] and she said, “write to her”.
And when she was telling me about this hotel restaurant, by the way, it was all in incredulous tones, because it was extraordinary to write the menu every day at that time when restaurants’ menus didn’t change over the course of 10 years. Anyway, she gave me a piece of paper and I wrote to her and then as you know, became a member of the family. I came into Ballymaloe, I met Myrtle who reinforced all my mother's values around food, and I was like a sponge. I just soaked up everything.
Who inspires you?
In my opinion, the most skilled and talented chef in the Michelin scene in Ireland is Mickael Viljanen in Chapter One in Dublin. But the sort of food that I really love is what you get in several places in London like Brat and Brawn, and Barrafina and Violet Bakery. I like food where you take beautiful ingredients and cook them simply so they're really delicious. And of course River Cafe and Spring - certainly Skye Gyngell would be one of the people that I really admire and respect.
What are the main issues in the food industry today as you see it?
The main issue is pressure on food costs really, and I think there's a big disconnect between the customer and the restaurants, because a lot of customers have no idea really how much the the cost of everything has risen, and how hard it is to make money. And people don't realise that if you want really delicious food, you have to invest in good ingredients and really good ingredients can take time to source and they cost money.
I also think that a lot of young chefs and cooks don't have enough basic skills. You know, you can ask a lot of young trendy chefs, can you make mayonnaise? Can you fillet a fish or make a Bearnaise or a loaf of bread, and they actually can't do that but they can do all kinds of creations on plates with tweezers and all the rest of it. I just worry. I think basic skills are incredibly important. And I wonder, are we focusing on the wrong area? I know a lot of young people want to be able to do things immediately, but we need to invest the time in learning our craft.
If you could be anywhere in the world for dinner tonight, where would you go?
Well I’d probably have boiled eggs and soda bread at home. But anyway. Oh, I mean, we're so lucky. There's so many wonderful places to eat in London, New York, LA. And it's just in my mind because I was there recently but I love Lulu at the Hammer Museum in LA. I love David Tanis’ food. I love that simple, delicious food. I mean, when I was there, Dorothy, the in-house forager would meet me at 6:30 in the morning and we'd go off to a farmers market. There are lots of really good farmers markets in LA and South Pasadena and Hollywood and Santa Monica. And there would be lots of other foragers from other restaurants, and they would be racing each other from one stall to another to get the best produce. And when they come back from the farmers market, with their baskets piled high with the most beautiful produce, then the menu is written.
What is your favorite kitchen tool?
My little whisk.
Do you ever listen to music in the kitchen?
Not really. I sometimes do but it's not something I have to do all the time. And also when you're cooking, actually, to a certain extent, you use all your senses; of course, your sense of smell, your taste, everything else but also sound because food sounds different at different stages of doneness. You know, you can tell even if you're at the other side of the kitchen, if you have a rasher on the pan and it’s ready to be flipped.
How do you take your coffee?
Well, it depends on the time of day. If it's an espresso, black with a little sugar. And in the morning, I have coffee with some hot raw milk.
What is your favourite herb and spice?
Annual marjoram and cardamom.
What’s the best advice you’ve ever received?
There's no success without hard work. And if you're going to work hard, you might as well be the best. Always charge what you need to charge for something so you can get good ingredients and do a really good job. There might be lots of different restaurants or cafés in your area, but somebody has to be the best, and it might as well be you. And basically if you're going to work hard anyway, you might as well have the satisfaction of knowing that you're doing a really good job.
And then the other thing that I really believe in is to promise less and give more. Perfect your product and everybody who leaves the place then will do your marketing for you. So make sure that every customer who leaves is a happy customer. Word of mouth is slower, but it's far more effective.
What is your favourite drink to have after dinner?
I actually love Grappa or there's an apple ice wine made in Cork that's really really good.
And finally: a Hot Cross Bun recipe to see you through the Easter weekend!
Dough ingredients:
150g milk
1 small orange, boiled until soft and pureed
2 eggs
360g strong white flour
100g wholemeal flour
80g light brown sugar
1 tsp salt
100g soft butter
100g raisins
100g sultanas
25g fresh yeast/12g dried yeast
100g candied orange and lemon peel
2 tea bags (can be black tea or Earl Grey, lapsang souchong etc.)
Glaze ingredients:
100g light brown sugar
50g honey
1 star anise
1 cinnamon stick
5 cloves
2 tbsp water
Cross ingredients:
150g flour
5g baking powder
20g caster sugar
The night before mixing, put the fruit and tea bags in a large bowl and cover with boiling water.
Place milk, orange puree, eggs, flour, sugar, salt and yeast in a stand mixer with hook attachment. Mix at a low speed for 5 minutes and then at a high speed for 5 minutes.
When the dough is smooth and strong, start adding soft butter one piece at a time while mixing on a medium speed.
Drain the fruit, and add with the candied peel to the bowl. Mix until just combined.
Transfer to an oiled container, and leave in the fridge overnight.
To shape, weigh out 120g pieces of dough. Shape each bun into a tight ball, using your hands to pull the bun towards you. Place the buns on a lined baking tray, leaving 4-5cm between each one.
Prove for 2 hours or until puffy and jiggly.
For the cross, mix flour, baking powder and sugar with enough water to make a smooth paste. Use a piping bag to pipe across on each bun.
Preheat the oven to 190C. Bake the buns for 20-25 minutes, turning after 12 minutes.
While the buns are baking, make the glaze. Place all ingredients in a saucepan over a medium heat. Heat until simmering, and allow to simmer for 2 minutes before removing from the heat.
Glaze while hot, and enjoy warm or toasted.
Brilliant Beth. Clear crisp writing and commentary. And variety. The writing keeps the interest
Starting this day hearing just what I needed to from Darina Allen really made me smile. Time to buy a little whisk! I can't wait to keep reading what you publish. Those HXB's look insane.